 Title: The Eye of the World Author: Robert Jordan Format: MM Available Formats: TP, Kindle, Barnes and Noble eBook, Sony eBook, Audio Download, Audio CD Page Count: 782 Genre: Epic Fantasy Publisher: Tor Pub. Date: November 15, 1990 ISBN-13: 9780812511819 Series: #1 in the Wheel of Time series Rating: 9 of 10 |
Summary:
When Edmond's Field is attacked by Trollocs, it seems that they were after three young men in particular. These sheltered young men must then leave their city (with an ever-growing party) because the Dark One wants them. Moiraine, an Aes Sedai, and her Warder, Lan, are determined to keep the boys from the Dark One's grasp by heading to Tar Valon. Only the journey to Tar Valon is a perilous one during which the party faces many dangers and begins to learn more about themselves...
TL;DR Version:
A book that is heavily reminiscent of Tolkien, but deeper and--dare I say--more fun. A huge cast of characters, but a slow and delicious plot to array them within.
Review:
In this top portion, I'll be reviewing the book in my normal format. This will contain my own ideas and impressions on the book. After the review will be included topics to help start discussions.
I'm new to the Wheel of Time series. I've been aware of Wot for a while now, but until Brandon Sanderson was chosen as the author who would continue after the unfortunate death of Robert Jordan, I wasn't convinced enough to pick it up. Hey, the series is quite a commitment at 800+ pages per installment.
How does one start talking about a behemoth like Eye of the World? I mean, the task is truly daunting. The plot goes so far, the number of characters, and the are so many nuances in the book... But I'll try to the best of my abilities.
Characters are always a large portion of my enjoyment of a novel. For me, well-rendered characters can make a worthwhile while badly developed ones can be torture. This can realy be a difficult part of the epic fantasy novel, because the casts are often large and the character arcs span many books. However, when done well, it's amazing because one has so much time to get to know the characters. I'm not entirely sure where I stand with WoT's characters altogether. Here's how I feel so far, though. My favorites ended up being: Perrin, Lan, and Nynaeve. Perrin because he's so much more solid in my mind than Rand or Mat (both I'll discuss later) and I loved the connection he has with the wolves. Is it nerdy to be so easily won over by that sort of device? But when he began to more and more resemble the wolves... Well, I was probably overly thrilled. Lan was slower to grow on me, but I like his steady, quiet honor. And Nynaeve I couldn't help but loving for her stubborn, walled-off sense of honor and duty... The characters that did less for me were Rand and Mat. In fact, Mat spent much of the book annoying the living hell out of me. I'm hoping this is a trait he grows out of in the (very near) future... Rand only irked me in that his personality was so incredibly subdued. This may be because most of the book is told through a very limited third person perspective based on him, or it could be that he's just a slow-to-develop character. Either way, I'm hoping to see more distinctiveness from him in The Great Hunt.
As for the plot, it's epic. Of course it is! I thought I might have a problem with the slow pace, but was very surprised to find that I really enjoyed the novel and wanted to continue to see what would happen. I wasn't absolutely glued to the page, but I was definitely very interested throughout the entire novel. Even if the pacing can be described as a bit slow, the weaving plot is delicious. I couldn't help but think of Tokien's The Lord of the Rings series as I read. The elements are similar: a party of good guys on a journey while they are being stalked by evil. Although it might be heretical to say, I didn't enjoy Tolkien's telling as much as Eye of the World. Classic or no, I felt like Jordan's world was more welcoming and the characters had more potential for growth.
I won't extrapolate too much further, for fear of igniting a Tolkien-inspired war, but the series definitely begs comparison.
I'll wrap up my impressions with other random things I liked. I liked the discussion of the "Pattern". This tickles my philosopher side and makes me wonder about free will versus fate and how it'll all play out in the series... Also, am I the only one who (SLIGHT SPOILER) did not see the Lan/Nynaeve romance coming at all? In fact, I had vaguely had Lan paired up with Moraine in my mind until Nynaeve talks to him so directly in that beautiful scene in chapter 48... Then again, perhaps I was just being dense not to see it? The last point I'll bring up is the role of women in Eye of the World. Right now I'm a bit torn with Moiraine, Egwene, and Nynaeve. Each are powerful in their own way (Moiraine most obviously, but definitely Nynaeve in will--Egwene could go either way), but they all have incredibly weak/immature moments. Sometimes Nynaeve's stubbornness seems to border silly petulance. Egwene can be a bit hypocritical in what she forces/allows the men to do... I don't know. I really want to see the women stand up alongside the men in the series, but I think I may have to just satisfy myself with what we've got so far...
Anyway, I'll truly enjoy finding out in The Great Hunt after I take a little breather away from Jordan's world.
Cover/Title/First Line Critique:
I'm not a huge fan of the 90's cover art (does't Moiraine look like a ragdoll compared to all the others?), but find something strangely compelling about it at the same time. Must be my masochism again. Anyway, WoT is one of those things people tend to go asking for rather than finding, I think, so it doesn't much matter.
Rating: 9 of 10 [Learn more about the rating system?]
This book was purchased from Borders.
Discussion
Helpful Links:
| General: 1. Original WoT 2010 Challenge Post 2. Tor Re-Read for EotW Reviews from Participants: 1. Kay's Bookshelf 2. Dirty Sexy Books 3. Paul's Blog 4. The Little Reader 5. Turtles all the way down |
Discussion Guidelines:
I want to put down a few guidelines for discussion before we begin.
| 1. This is the only guideline set in stone: respect others. And really, that shouldn't have to be said. Plus, I'm sure everyone here is quite mature and just excited to talk about such a great series, right? The other guidelines are only to help the discussion move smoothly. 2. If you're replying to someone directly, try using an @username at the top of your comment. This way others can either just scan for their name or CTRL+F to see if anyone wants their attention/conversation directly. 3. Don't be afraid to start conversations with others! Everyone is here to discuss and enjoy the series together. 4. If your post contains spoilers for books past The Eye of the World, please mark that clearly at the top of your comment. No one likes spoilers. Yet, there are both people here who have read the series before and those who have not. I don't want to be restrictive either, so this is the best way that we newbies can co-exist with you veterans. |
Discussion Ideas:
Just in case anyone is stumped on where to start here are 5 things that struck me about the book and I'd like to talk about further.
| - What do you think of the women in EotW? Which do you view as the strongest? - Of the three young men (Perrin, Mat, and Rand) which are you most predisposed to like/dislike? - What do you think of the role of fate/free choice in EotW? - Did the end work for you? Did you immediately want to pick up The Great Hunt or were you ready for a break? - What was your favorite scene and why? |
55 responses:
Hi
I am so glad that the discussion has started :)
First off, here's my review (answering most of the questions in more detail): http://www.kaysbookshelf.com/2010/01/the-eye-of-the-world-by-robert-jordan/
On to my answers:
1. I loved the women (and the fact that they were strong enough to fight their fights instead of just waiting to be rescued). The strongest was of course Moiraine, but Nynaeve showed quite a bit of promise too and I am looking forward to see how her characters will develop in later books.
2. I kinda disliked Mat (thought he was a bit dumb compared to others), but liked the other two :)
3. While it was clear there was very little free choice involved in the book, and I'm usually not a fan of predestination, in this particular book I loved the idea of lives forming a pattern, and that sometimes individuals influence the pattern and sometimes viceversa.
4. Yup, the ending did work for me (I seem to be the exception, people usually call it rushed). I was quite tempted to pick up book 2 right away (I loved the characters and wanted to see what happens next).
5. That's quite hard because there were a lot of scenes I liked :) A random one? The one with Lan and Nynaeve by the fire (before that I thought I was only imagining something might develop between them). Also, the scenes at the end of the book, when the spring has finally come and everyone is happy.
That's it from me now. I hope it makes sense as I typed it all without stopping to re-read it :)
Finally, this has been like waiting for christmas.
1. Ah the women of WOT, this discussion will rage for all time. There are so many views on their treatment by RJ. For me to talk about them I must first begin, with the men! RJ has role-reversed them in one respect. In this world Men are responsible for Original Sin, Men broke the world, Men go crazy if they channel Sadin. This has put Women in a much more dominant role. On the whole I like it, makes for some crazy cultures we will meet later on. On the other side of that coin is, some female charecters are so insufferable I want to run for the hills screaming (nynaeve im looking at you). At the same time Moiraine is my favorite female. I just love her, she is strong, capable, smart and beautiful. I love every moment with her especially in latter books. (Cairhenin and Aes Sedai, there can be no worse combination).
2. Come on where is the Mat love around here. He is without a doubt my favorite character in the series. No wait strike that, Matrim Cauton is my favorite character in literature period. I love a good rogue and he is the best rogue ever. I forgot how grumpy he is in this book. His mistrust goes deep and is only worsened by the dagger, but this mistrust is the core of his character and is very important to his future development. Rand and Perrin are good to. I definitely like them but they dont hold a candle to Mat.
3. I love the concepts of the pattern, the wheel and the age lace. These concepts are so prevelent throughout the series. How are we fated to follow our destinies if the Creator takes no hand in events? Do we live the same lives over and over. Is there no other path we can take. There are no Begings or Endings.
4. When I first read EotW I remember doing a double take at the end. Sort of a "wait, what just happened". On other re-reads I got the answer "a whole lot".
5. My favorite scene by far is when Rand goes to see Logain and falls into the palace gardens. Meets a queen, a snip-nosed girl, 2 mules, a General, and the biggest bitch on the face of the planet (i know no other way to describe that woman). I have reread that chapter so many times I can recite it.
One thing I wanted to mention is RJ's use of foreshadowing. Holy crap that man knew everything in advance. Some of it is fairly heavy handed but most of it is so subtle only people who have reread these books multiple times could see. I just always stand in awe of Jordans pre-planning.
@TJ
RJ has stated that he gave the begining of this book a destinct Tolkien feel to make readers feel comfotable, which it loses completely in later books. Also this was written when Fantasy writers wrote like Tolkien or were shot out of canon.
Greetings - I'll start by posting my review here, and come back and comment when I'm more awake.
The easiest way to describe The Eye of the World is to compare it to J. R. R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings series (from this point on I’m going to resort to acronyms, and use WoT for Wheel of Time and LOTR for The Lord of the Rings). There are so many similarities between these epic fantasy creations that if they were relations, I’d say they were first cousins at the very least, or maybe even siblings. They definitely should not breed together, or they’d produce pop-eyed children. For readers hankering for a good, long, adventure that traverses thousands of miles, this 800-page brick will do the job admirably. I enjoyed myself from start to finish, and while this introduction book didn’t tap my deeper emotions, I think that if I continue the series it just might.
For all that I’m tempted to draw parallels between LOTR and WoT, there was one big difference that pleased me greatly. It’s been many years since I read Tolkien’s great work, but I do recall getting bogged down at times, bored by yet another elfin song, or some obscure piece of history that had me skimming paragraphs, if not whole pages. In my opinion, Tolkien was a little too wrapped up in his own little world at times, and he forgot about the reader. I think that Robert Jordan’s style is much more accessible, and he kept everything moving at a brisk clip. Even when one of his characters settled down to tell a story, it never tested the limits of my concentration. Mr. Jordan’s work is extremely similar to Tolkien’s, but I found it more readable. Not once in 800-pages was I tempted to skip or skim, and that’s saying something.
One of the trickiest things about these epic stories is juggling the wide cast of characters. There are a lot of people running around, half of them with un-pronounceable names (too bad I didn’t notice the glossary at the back until the very end), but I think Mr. Jordan did a decent job. I wish a bit more time was invested in Rand, the corner stone for the story, but with eleven more books to go, I’m confident that even the guys on the sidelines will be brought to life in exquisite detail.
I’m reading through the WoT series as part of a monthly reading challenge, and I’m glad that we’re tackling these one-a-month. While many readers probably read these back-to-back, I’ll enjoy the break in between each installment. The Eye of the World was stuffed to the gills, and I want to have time to ponder it, and let my anticipation build for the second book, The Great Hunt.
Here's the link to this review (sorry it's so ugly):
http://www.dirtysexybooks.com/Dirty_Sexy_Books/Reviews/Entries/2010/1/30_THE_EYE_OF_THE_WORLDBY_ROBERT_JORDAN1990_(THE_WHEEL_OF_TIME_SERIES__BOOK_1).html#comment_layer
@Trench
Robert Jordan was indeed a master at foreshadowing. I Love rereading the series cause I always pick up something I missed the first time around! :D
@Rebecca
I was going to go into the same thing about How Jordan drew so many parallels to LOTR throughout Eotw. Because of this, this book kind of dragged for me at first. But it's a good way to pay homage to one of the best fantasy writers of all time as well as introduce the large cast of characters he bring in throughout the series and the places and geography of 'randland.'
As with the questions, to me, Jordan's females fall pretty short at first. I think hos ideas of women and how they interact with one another, with men, and how they think are all pretty stereotypical and offensive. But as it progresses throughout the series, I think I see this less and less. He tries so hard to have strong females in his books, but then they all mesh together and there are few distinctive characteristics to tell them all apart. With that being said, it's good to see a man writing strong female leads who are not so quick to out themselves out or something. I find that Egwene annoys me the most in this book, and Nynaeve is my favorite.
Throughout this book, I found that I LOVE Rand. He's fantastic. I love his struggles and curciousity and his humble backgrounds and wanting to stay with his family and what he knows, yet doing what he knows must be done, leaving the Two Rivers. I was annoyed by Mat. I found him lacking in many areas, and he made me so angry for taking that dagger! Perrin I find just plain boring and dull. I don't particularly like any of his storylines.
My first time through the end of eotw, I completely breezed through the ending and when I finished I wasn't sure what in the world happened! I knew it was epic, but I was so confused. I had to reread it 3 or 4 times to completely understand what was going on, yet I'm still a little unsure. What in the world could that black thread he cut be? I know what he thinks it is, but I remember (I think) reading that that wasn't the case. Or maybe I didn't. Either way, I'm still curious to know!
I also wanted to bring up The Ways. I love Jordan's use of Worlds within the world. The first we see are The Ways, I found them both facinating and so creepy. Narow bridges stretching into blackness. All the island platforms that connect to bridges floating in nothing. Machin Shin, the black wind. You go crazy if it touches, thats pretty scary.
But like anything Jordan created it has such a cool history. I would love to walk The Ways when they are sunny and the islands were covered in soft grass.
Thats whats so great about this world. It really does have lots of layers.
@Kay: I've added your review as a link! I was actually quite excited for the discussion as well. I was up really late last night making sure everything was perfect!
1. Moiraine is definitely strong, but I like Nynaeve's will and stubbornness, I must confess! And, who knows? Perhaps our party will one day rival Moir for other sorts of strength?
2. Mat pretty much was the thorn in my side for this book... He was just so dense so much of the time...
3. There does seem to be a block on free will, but in one part of the book--I forget where exactly--someone says that the Pattern moves to make room for changes that aren't too big. I just wonder how far it's willing to bend and how much it'll be bending for our heroes!
@Trench: Ha, that's great! I was so worried about all the little details of this challenge, but everyone's just been too great.
1. I was looking around at a few reviews after I posted this and I had utterly no idea that people are so charged up about the WoT women. I always ask myself slightly feminist questions when reading, but I couldn't quite peg how I feel in this first book. So far I like both Nynaeve and Moiraine, but am on the outs mostly with Egwene. I suppose I'll have to wait and see how it all develops..!
2. Mat perhaps got the bad role in EotW. He spends quite a lot of it being unpleasant! I'm completely open to liking him, but he's going to have to throw me a bone in The Great Hunt. I did like how he stuck with Rand despite his burning paranoia of everyone else, though. :P
3. Yes, I was just lost in the idea of the wheel and pattern (which is probably a good thing, considering it's, you know, so integral to the series)!
On Foreshadowing: I was at a Brandon Sanderson signing a few months ago when he was speaking about getting the Jordan notes. He said--and this seems perfectly natural after reading EotW--that Jordan had notes on every little detail. Characters that never said more than a handful of words have entire histories in Jordan's brain. The sense for detail and thoroughness probably contribute to the foreshadowing. I'm sure I missed tons of it, since it's my first read through. :P
On Tolkien: Ah, that would definitely make sense. I was so strongly reminded of The Lord of the Rings at many portions that I thought it couldn't just be my imagination. It's a little comforting to know that it was intentional on Jordan's part.
On the Ways: The Ways, I think, are a great example of how detailed Jordan is. Even his world has worlds within them. But he definitely also has a great touch for making things come alive. I wasn't creeped out by the Ways (although incredibly interested), but the ravens? I was totally creeped. ;)
My comment was so big, I had to split it into two! :O
@Rebecca: I, myself, had to go collapse after I was done posting this. That or my responses would be even less coherent than they are. ;)
Trench and I were discussing (or rather, he told me) that Jordan made the feel of EotW intentionally like that of Tolkien. It's good to know that I had a reason to be feeling the Tolkien-vibe so strongly! Tolkien's always been a little far-away feeling and closed off to me. When I read a Tolkien novel, I feel like I can look in on a interesting world, but never really access it. I didn't feel like that in EotW at all. Instead, I felt like I was amid all the action.
I felt Rand was sort of hallow throughout EotW. Leigh Butler asked an interesting question in her re-read, saying that it was possible that Jordan purposefully left the character a little 'blank' so that the reader can identify better. Still, I hope he rounds out in the future. What character did you like best so far?
And I posted this on your review, but I'll say it here, too. I'm incredibly happy I have a little down time before picking up the next book. I think I'd feel like I'd run a very, very long marathon if I tried to read this books without any time at all between them. Alternately, I think too much time between and I'd lose all those purposeful little details Jordan includes.
@Betsy: Perrin boring! I loved Perin so dearly. Then again, I suppose it's natural for every reader to be interested in different story lines. I was wishing the story line of Mat and Rand on the boat would hurry up so I could get back to Perrin most of the time. ;)
I'm not sure on the thread. I have a theory, but knowing how elaborate WoT is, I'm probably wrong... I hope that it's explored further in The Great Hunt!
Hello all - this is my first time posting on this site though I've been reading it and enjoying it since I found it. I posted my comments on the book on my blog (http://paulchauvet.org/books/the-eye-of-the-world-by-robert-jordan/) and I'm mirroring my comments and answers here.
I didn't really see the parallels to LotR until later on. I read that trilogy first when I was too young to really appreciate it. I had the somewhat backwards experience of rereading LotR when I was in my early twenties and seeing the parallels (though knowing it was Jordan emulating or giving homage to Tolkein).
1)I liked the women a lot in EotW, but there was a long stretch in later books that I really found them annoying. This wasn't the case in EotW. I loved Nynaeve's strength and concern, even at a relatively young age. She had so much responsibility and didn't back down even when confronting Moiraine. The series shows her starting with confidence, almost too much in herself, losing some of that and getting too insecure, and eventually turning confident without being overconfident or haughty.
Egwene's simple fascination with her ability with the one power, and seeming childlike innocence made her transformation over the series the most stark among the main female characters. Elayne I didn't really care for though it took until the later books for her to actively annoy me.
In general though - perhaps because it was the first book but the 'we're always right, men are always wrong' attitude of Nynaeve and to a lesser extent Egwene did catch up to me later but in the first book it didn't bother me much. Partially because the men did do some pretty stupid things at times (like Rand's reaction to Egwene wanting to learn to channel).
2)As for the men, I will start off saying I've never been terribly interested in, nor cared much for Perrin. I felt this when I first read EotW and I still feel it now at the (nearly) end of the series.
Rand I've always seen as my favorite character. I felt that his relationship with his father was the strongest (at least as it was portrayed) than any other Emonds Fielder and their family. This makes it doubly harder for him to both leave, and face the possibility that Tam isn't really his father. Mat I enjoyed but he didn't really become one of my favorites until Shadow Rising. The changes that happened to him after taking the dagger from Shadar Logoth showed the power of that place, but even with that he still always was there for Rand. Without that strength of character the dagger's evil would have kept him from staying with and helping Rand.
3)In terms of fate & free choice in EotW I don't think it is as much of an issue as in later books. This isn't Sophocles or other greek tragedies where everything is predestined. Much of the prophecies are clearly meant to be one thing and they don't turn out exactly as the characters believe. The main characters have every ability to do what they want, but they are choosing to do what they believe has to be done (whether it means fleeing Emonds Field to save their families and friends, or going to the Eye of the World in the Great Blight.
4)I IMMEDIATELY picked up the next book (though I had the advantage of having books 1-5 purchased all together from the Sci Fi book club. I remember the wait for book 7 (after rushing through 1-6 in 1994/95) being an INCREDIBLY long wait - especially for a then 16/17 year old.
5)My favorite scene(s) (can't pick just one) was Rand's flight from the farmhouse with an ailing Tam, and when Aginor & Balthamel confronted the heroes at the Eye. Both for completely different reasons (one for emotion, one for pure action and anticipation of what will happen).
I have to weigh in with my thoughts on Perrin. Perrin by himself is a good character, but what I love about him are the wolves. How they communicate to each other with sensations and images are Jordan at his descriptive best. Even their names are descriptive. Perrin without the wolves wouldn't be as good. His learning to balance being a Wolfbrother and a man makes his early story arcs very enjoyable.
@PaulC: We're very happy to have you for this discussion, then! And I'm personally very glad that you enjoy Book Love Affair! :)
I just read LotR four or so years ago, so they're still more or less in my brain. Perhaps that's another reason that it popped into my mind so easily...
1. Everyone's making me really worried about the development of the women later! For this book, though, I agree that Nynaeve is endearing in her concern and willingness to confront Moiraine (no one else really does!).
I'd really like to enjoy Egwene's innocence (because that description is spot-on for EotW Egwene, but...I just can't.
I think you're right that there is a general feeling of "the womenfolk are right" in this volume. Then again, that makes perfect sense in the world. In this world, it's--as someone else has pointed out--the men that have ruined so much and the women who have the more organized groups and powers. Especially in Edmond's Field, where so many of the men are blundering fools. I suppose if you look at Nynaeve's reasons from that perspective it makes sense. Still, I'd like to see her round out more fully as an individual and be more able to listen to others. She certainly isn't much good at that yet.
2. Perhaps I am being a bit hard on Rand and Mat, but I really just can't get a good grasp on Rand (except in the scenes where he interacts with his father, which I adore). As for Mat, I do have a hard time feeling sympathy for him, because he brings so much of his trouble on himself... Mat may be incredibly strong (and likely is, after having fought the strength of the evil in that dagger but staying alongside Rand), but he's also very foolish and immature yet. That isn't to say Perrin is faultless. After all, Perrin tends to see the faults of others while discounting his own much of the time, but he just seems more solid for me as a character. And, well, I love the wolves. But that's just me! It's good to know that there is Mat and Rand love out there. I'm sure I'll warm up to them in later books. :)
3. That makes me a bit sad, as I really like the theme and idea of fate being thwarted! Oh well. ;)
5. I also love the scene in which Rand flees with the wounded Tam. It really had me on the edge of my seat. And I felt so horrible, because I really liked Tam quite a lot!
SPOILERS AHEAD.
@Trench: I'm not entirely sure one must separate Perrin from the wolves. I like to think of them as integrated into his character. After all, would one separate Moiraine from her power? And his ties as a Wolfbrother are even so deep that they effect him physically. But yes, the wolves are the more imaginative part of Perrin! And when Hopper died, I was truly distraught...
Still, I like that Perrin is good person, who tries to do the right thing, but isn't above regret or questioning himself. He acts, but he thinks beforehand. And he ponders his own role (particularly in the portion where he's debating the attributes of a leader when he reunites with Egwene when the party is separated). He just works for me on quite a few levels. Perhaps if I had gotten more insight into Mat's mind and choices, I'd be more forgiving of his mistakes.
@TJ The later books the women (Egwene & Nynaeve) become some of my favorite characters so I wouldn't get too discouraged by people's comments (my own included). I think the problem is there is a point where the women go from 'thinking they are right and actually being right' to 'thinking they are right and being pretty far off'. There are some points where it becomes pretty comical though in later books.
There is definitely some 'fate being thwarted' in the books. The characters seem convinced that a prophecy means that a certain thing will happen, and when something does happen, it doesn't always (or actually rarely) happens as the characters or even the average reader expects. Rand in particular believes too strongly I think in his 'destiny' and reads the prophecies too literally.
Me again :)
1. I often see mentioned, while reading about the series, that women become sort of cookie-cutter in some of the later books (every one of them just as the others). This saddens me somewhat, because they started out so nicely in this book, didn't they? Oh, speaking of the women, I wonder whether we'll ever get to see Min again.
2. Speaking of Perrin, I liked him even before he discovered his special power. I also liked the parts about the wolves (especially when Hopper was described as the cub who wanted to soar like eagles), and that is another aspect that I'm looking forward to see how it turns out in the later books. But... am I the only one worried about Perrin when he suddenly talks of hunting (like he, despite himself, thinks himself a wolf)?
About Mat, I am glad that he too will become quite likable later on. I too have noticed the part where he took care of the ailing Rand when he needed it the most (despite the influence of the dagger), and yet I couldn't like him overall. Perhaps later on, as he will grow up a bit :)
On Foreshadowing: I think that is SO very cool, and we (the readers) are very lucky that Jordan was such an organized person. I'm very looking forward to catch a glimpse of that (foreshadowing) myself, as I saw nothing of the kind thus far (but that was to be expected after reading only one book). :)
About the Ways: I loved the concept of that. Especially the way they used to be, ages ago, all green and sunny and filled with flowers. Not that they're not interesting like they are now, of course.
Overall, I am very looking forward to the next books (and all the character and world development to follow). My enthusiasm is a bit dampened by the fact that the later ones are said to be a lot less well written than the first ones; but I am nevertheless looking forward to discovering that on my own :)
Also, who was your favorite bad guy/negative creature in the book? I for one have found the idea of the Fade both cool (black cloak that did not move in the wind) and a bit scary (a face with no eyes? ugh).
Whoops, quite a few comments have appeared between my starting to write mine and publishing it. I hope it still makes sense though :D
@PaulC, I am so very glad you liked the women even later on. So things are not as bad as they sound like, yay! :)
@TJ
I see your point in not seperating him from the wolf, being a wolfbrother is the core of his charecter. But Perrin the man has some short comings.
Perrin is singleminded and driven, we haven't seen much of this yet. But its what I feel is his shortcoming. Perrin is like an island to himself. He is not selfish or cold hearted he just sees the problem at hand and focuses on it to the exclusion of everything else. It can be a bit tiresome.
That breing said im never sad to see a Perrin Icon heading a chapter. He is a great person, he is good friend, and he is by far the most level head character.
Hopper is great
"to soar..."
@kay
My favorite bad guy in this book is Padan Fain, his history with the Darkfriends and being the Dark Ones hound forced to hunt Rand is pretty cool.
Dont worry about decline in quality later most of it stems from the 2-3 year wait in between books and the story is so large its hard to get alot done. Most People who start fresh don't notice it much. As well it picks back up. Brandon blew my mind I can't wait for December.
@trench You make a good point about much of the concern about quality being because of the 2-3 year delay. When you only buy it in paperback and have no delay between when the books are released, its really not much of a concern.
I've read the series quite a bit over the years, but lets see if I can keep the spoilers out of this.
1) Female characters are a pretty charged topic in WOT. Moiraine is something of a force of nature in this book. Her humanity peeks through at points, but she is rather enigmatic for our young Emond's Fielders, at least at the start. Egwene has a lot of growing up to do (and way to foreshadow some of that, Robert Jordan!) Nynaeve strikes me as perhaps the strongest female character in the book. She is fairly young and in a strong leadership role in her village. She goes off to bring back people from her village, despite the danger. (Yes, you could argue that it was a bad idea.)
2) When I first read the book, many years ago, Rand was probably my favorite character. Taken from EotW, he is still one of my favorites, yet I also have some problems with him. As for the Rand/Egwene problem with her learning to channel... well, imagine if your friend told you they wanted to become a serial killer? Remember that all his life, Rand has heard stories about the terrible things Aes Sedai do. Yes, some Aes Sedai are good, but Jordan doesn't make it a binary thing, and even doing the right thing can have terrible consequences.
Perrin was more of the middle ground character, I found him interesting, but didn't connect as well with him on my first reading. The Wolfbrother dynamic is important, and will tie in with his creation/destruction struggle later on. As for Mat... despite how awesome he might become later, he gets into all sorts of trouble in this book. And Dagger-Mat is not fun to be around.
3) The Fate vs Free Will thing will be important for later books. Lets say that many characters make the choice to embrace their fate (or what they think is their fate). I don't want to spoil anything for you.
4) People are still wondering about this ending and THE VOICE. After many re-reads, the ending is still something I enjoy. The first few books have some pretty great endings. The first time I read EotW, I started it at lunch time (in middle school, something around a decade ago) and finished that night. I believe that copy also had the Prologue to TGH, as my current copy does, and it left me wanting more. My last re-read of the entire series was Summer 2008, with about a book per week.
5) Hard to choose a scene. I guess I'll go with the ending for the cinematic nature of the whole thing. I'm always sad at the passing of the Green Man.
Re: Foreshadowing: There is a ton all over the place and I usually catch new things on every re-read. Some of it is hard to catch the first time through.
Re: Tolkien: I read LOTR (or attempted to) a year or two before I discovered the WOT. Parts of those books drag horribly, and if I remember correctly, I stopped reading them during one of the Sam/Frodo/Gollum travel narratives. I didn't go back to finish LOTR until after I had read all the WOT books I could get my hands on. That particular LOTR resonance is important and deliberate in EotW, but I enjoy the fact that it gets transcended.
I'm not sure that makes any sense, but I'm sick.
i don't have time just yet to sit down and formulate my responses to the discussion, but i will be back. promise.
for now, here is the link to my review: http://thelittlereader.net/2010/01/31/the-eye-of-the-world/
@PaulC: I'll just have to wait and see on the role of women. I'll try to keep my mind open, especially considering the setting that Jordan has made. :)
Those are points I'll be looking forward to! But like I said, I'm just a nerdy philosophy student. :P
@Kay: 1. I rather liked Min! Rather, I loved how she creeped everyone out because she had access to knowledge that they didn't--particularly disturbing to characters as non-introspective as Rand. ;)
2. Yes, but Perrin really came alive for me as a character after that conflict was thrown in. He was interesting before, yes, but I think he needed the little extra something. The wolves were just amazing. (Hopper!) I also liked how Jordan began to use more and more wolf imagery/etc with Perrin as time went on. It rally worked for me!
Mat has possibilities, but I need to see the non-dagger-influenced Mat. And maybe some maturing. Of course, I have the same issue with Egwene (maturity, that is, not dagger-lust). :P
Re: Favorite bad guy.
I thought the dream Ba'alzamon was pretty scary. Also, the ravens. Wasn't so impressed with Trollocs...
@Trench: Definitely, I agree. In fact, I rather like the fact that Jordan is so thorough in making no character perfect. They all have short comings (some greater than others) and have difficult seeing/dealing with their own faults. I view this as a definitely positive, because so many books romanticize the characters ridiculously.
@Chris: 1. I had no idea the topic was so charged! I'm very interested in seeing how it pans out in future books. I have to agree that I thought Nynaeve was very strong. Even if she didn't always make the best choices (which of the young ones has really made all the right choices so far?)
2. Really, I'm interested in seeing how all three of the boys mature and grow. They all obviously have difficult paths ahead of them...
@LittleReader: Adding your link now! :)
I was wondering if any got as confused as I did durring the Rand and Mat walk to Caemlyn chapters? Chapters 31-34 are told out of sequence. I remeber this as a very disgointed segment, it always threw me for a loop. Even the author eludes to it at the start of chapter 34 The Last Village. "He (Rand) wondered if his whole sense of time was getting skewed".
I just finished an hour ago (a tad late to the party, I know) so I figured I would go through the 5 discussion points then jump back to sift through the comments thus far. Just as a note on my history with WoT this is my third time reading EOTW (my first reread crapped out last year after Lord of Chaos).
1) It's my opinion that Egwene is a perfect blend of adorableness and annoying. She's probably my favorite female character in this one. Moraine grows on me each time I read this one. You can tell she has a plan unlike everyone else who just runs about willy-nilly. As for Nynaeve, you love or you hate her. For me, if I had a braid I would tug it each time Nynaeve opens her mouth.
2) Thinking back to my first reading I was none too fond of Mat, I didn't dislike him but he was just the stock roguish one who gets the others into trouble. Of course, once you read the rest of the series you learn better, but at first he is merely OK. Rand is the one I identify with most throughout the series. He is my favorite character (though Mat is close) and even when he is being a stubborn woolhead in need of a swift kick I prefer him to Perrin. Perrin, like Moraine, has grown on me in rereads, but is still my least favorite of the boys.
3) Fate and Free Will come in a lot more later on when the boys really let their ta'veren powers loose on the world and the flow of the Pattern gets a lot harder to predict for both good guys and bad.
4) The ending is sudden, but I don't think that's a bad thing. The whole book reads like a race, and once you get to the finish line there just isn't much more to tell. I like the ending and will almost certainly start on The Great Hunt later tonight.
5) As much as I would like to say my favorite scene was meeting Min, I have to go with Rand's dreams. Particularly given a certain scene in The Gathering Storm. They foreshadow so much that I found myself rereading them again just to make sure I hadn't missed any hidden meanings.
1] Women in EotW. Just judging this book as it's own entity, I think I liked Moraine the best. The girls still have a lot of growing up to do though they show some promise. However, even as an Aes Sedai, Moraine still keeps her own council. There were at least two points, one when talking with the Amyrlin and another when in the presence of a sister where she hopes the other doesn't guess her plans or know what she's actually doing. And considering that the Amyrlin is supposed to be on her side in the whole Dragon Reborn thing, I think that's pretty amazing. She has her own agenda and keeps her own council while trying to not let everyone else see the direction she's heading. Perhaps that comes just from living in the palace as a girl. At any rate, at this stage of the books I would call her my favorite. My actual favorite female character is coming up soon.
2] For this book, I dislike Mat the most. Not just the dagger Mat but rather the way he behaves that gets him into these messes. He decided to explore, he wanted to see the treasure, it's not just that he's a trouble maker just my least favorite this book.
3] Free choice vs Fate. It would definitely appear to me that the Pattern, or Fate plays a huge role in how things work this book. I'm trying hard to not cast ahead for how it seems to be later on. There does seem to be a little bit of Free Choice at times, but sometimes it is determined to be part of the Pattern, or is now a Part of the Pattern which leads it all back to Fate.
4] As usual, I had to read the end slowly. I missed what happened the first few read throughs and remembered that this time around. There is so much packed into the end that I can see where people might call it rushed, at least compared to the rest of the pace of the book. But I think it fit the overall craziness of what was happening. I jumped right into The Great Hunt simply because I'm paranoid that I will fall behind at some point as we get to the bigger books.
5] Favorite scene. I think that would be when they are all dancing at whatever inn they happened to stop at. Each of the boys find themselves dancing with Egwene, Moraine, and Nynaeve and it just seemed to be a nice pause in the rush to get on with the journey, a glimpse of some sort of normalcy.
Is it too early to ask about favorite side characters? I love Old Man Bornhald, but that could be because I hate the rest of the White Cloaks so much. He doesn't want to hurt you, but he's going to anyway. Bayle Domon is also a hoot!
I don't think Tam and Min count as side characters, but they are some of my favorites as well.
On the topic of bad guys, though he isn't a villain and I dislike him immensely, Galad is one of the best foils in EOTW. Elaida as well, another character you just love to hate.
~Justin
wow, i have so many thoughts in response to all of the discussion that has happened so far that i can't keep my head straight...
so, i'll answer the original questions first:
1. i alluded to this in my review (linked somewhere above), but i LOVE the development of the women in EotW. if i had to choose, i would say that moiraine is the strongest, both for her magical power and her steady, subdued character. nynaeve is stubbornly strong, but, as some others have mentioned, she can be immature in her inability to listen. egwene is just young, but she has a lot of promise. i'm particularly looking forward to what Elayne brings to the story, because she gave the impression, in the short few pages that we got to meet her, of being a very powerful woman herself.
2. of the young men, i prefer them in this order - perrin, rand, then mat, but i can see how this will change vastly with their development over the next few books. perrin just had the most personal growth this episode and for that, i think it was the most rewarding. rand seems to still be defined by tam, and so it is difficult to identify with him in any other way. mat is just stuck in his own little bubble of paranoia and dagger-evil, so its very difficult to identify with him at all (for now).
3. the fate/free choice themes present seem to still be in their infancy, with a lot of room for elaboration, which i'm looking forward to. i love the imagery that the Pattern presents, with the Wheel weaving as the Wheel will.
4. the ending worked for me, although it was a bit abrupt. i will be taking a short break from the series, a few days at the most, to finish up some other reading, but i'll be right back to jump into The Great Hunt. i'm really looking forward to what the second installation has in store for us.
* possible spoiler alert*
5. my favorite scene is probably when Perrin and Egwene are in the stedding with Elyas and the wolves, pondering the history of the monument that stood there before. there was so much weight of the history and balance and self-discovery that was going on throughout the book in that one scene. a close second would be the death of the Green Man. that was a terrible and beautiful scene that was described.
re: favorite bad guy - the creepiest bad 'thing' for me was Mashadar, the Evil of Shadar Logoth. the unseeing, unthinking crawling fog that could kill you with one touch... yeah, creepy. the ravens were a little too real and the dream Ba'alzamon was pretty disturbing, too. speaking of which, did anyone else find any resemblance between Ba'alzamon and Voldemort (from Harry Potter)? it was almost a direct parallel for me, at times.
@trench - i did notice the few chapters being out of order and had to go skimming back through to figure out what had happened. i think it was a little disjointed only because it was so unexpected, since the rest of the plot is so linear.
I find the black wind to be extremely creepy in the Ways. I've heard that on the audiobooks it is entirely creepy. Mashadar is fairly creepy too, although I can't say too much here without being spoilery, I believe.
As for that one sequence, yeah it is odd because it is a flashback scene. Whenever I get to it in a re-read, I must always read carefully to make sure I get it straight in my mind.
I may have noticed this for the first time (I inevitably forget things I notice on each re-read) but Ba'alzamon specifically tells the reader who he really is when he talks to Rand in the dream. You just have to put it together with the Prologue. Unfortunately Rand isn't privy to this information.
@grantsandson regarding your question 5 answer.
Not to pull the discussion forward past EotW too much but... I agree with you very much on that scene. Though the dream scenes in EotW 'Baalzamon' are very good, the dream which parallels it in "The Gathering Storm" is probably my favorite scene in the entire series.
"You were always so full of thoughts, Elan. Your logic destroyed you, didn't it?" That quote. That quote alone almost made the book for me.
I go to sleep for the night and look at everything I miss!
@grantsanderson: I'd say it's fashionably late. ;) It's never too early to ask about anything, really. Only it's a bit hard to absorb all the cast in the first reading! I'd argue that both Tam and Min count for side-characters, at least in EotW. Of course that can change in future books. Then again, I want to say "Tam" for my favorite side character, so I might be biased...
@Kacaia 1. Can't wait to meet your favorite. Don't forget to come back and point her out when she appears.
5. I remember that scene! And it was incredibly awkward, I believe, because Egwene and Rand had had a falling out.
@littlereader 5. That was an amazing scene... Of course that whole section of the book was just amazingly beautiful.
@grantsandson
I gotta say Geofram Bornhald is my favorite whitecloak. His talk about having convictions but not being overzealous is nice. He is definetly the most reasonable whitecloak.
Bayle Domon is always fun to read.
@littlereader
I agree with you that the green mans death scene is tagically beautiful, also when Loial sings his treesong so the tree will be protected from the blight it really brings his death a nice sense of closure. There is now one piece of uncorupted land in the blight.
@chris hall
I noticed that about Ba'alzamon to. Good old RJ hiding the answers in the open as usual.
@PaulC
i agree 100% great quote
@kacaia
im betting you favorite female is my favorite to, have to wait and see i guess.
Everytime I reread this series it seems like the first time all over again...it's like having a fresh start.
I agree that good ol' Mat was a bit more obnoxious, but I have to say he really grew to be my favorite character over time. I like that RJ gave us the two extremes of Mat and Nynaeve...they really are polar opposites that really live up to the "stereotypes" of the WoT world. Their stubborn natures are good for a lot of laughs.
The idea of fate vs. free-will in the WoT world is very intriguing...while on the one hand you have people constantly say "The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills," it is also a world with a Creator. Can you have fate and a Creator in th same world? Does the Creator control the Wheel? Or did He/She just set it in motion? Also, there are the ta'veren to be taken into account. They force threads to gather around them just by BEING. How does that work with free-will or fate? I guess I've never really delved deeply into this subject; I seem to have more questions than answers!
@Kacaia
5. I loved that scene too! Especially as both Moiraine and Nynaeve were authority figures until then (the ones that decide, the ones that no one messed with, the ones that have to be listened and obeyed), and it was a pleasant surprise to find that deep down inside they had a girlish side after all :)
re: favorite side character - i'd have to say Min, though she isn't likely to remain a side character. Cenn Buie cracked me up, and i was seriously worried when i thought Tam might die.
i hadn't even noticed that the symbols at the beginning of each chapter were significant until someone mentioned it... i guess that'll be something to pay attention to in the upcoming books and a re-read of EotW.
for those of us that haven't read the series, or if you remember your first response at the end of EotW, what do you think Moiraine has in mind? she obviously has something up her sleeve and all we can do is speculate.
@the little person Oh yes, those chapter icons are very important. Certain characters tend to get their own, although this can change throughout the series. After a while you'll have some idea of what to expect in a chapter from the icon. (Although there are... exceptions... as I recall.) Also, they are often very visually appealing.
@ all - Yes - the icons can even give away secrets of a chapter (usually a hidden forsaken) but there is a good list over on the WOT FAQ and links in Leigh Butlers chapter by chapter review. I also found that using the online encyclopedia/time line helped sort out that "time" loop with Rand and Mat on the run.
How many of you have a copy with the newer prologue "ravens" as this was not in the original and I think this was added for the mass market books when split up for marketability - wonder if this provided a stronger Tolkenesque feel for those who read it first? Also the general sense of a mysterious magicker showing up just as all hell breaks loose is a very common trope. However I believe Mo's staff was a very tolkeinesque icon and rapidly disappears from the novels.
Always loved Mo and thought Nyn was too full of herself - Jordon has interesting cultures and romances - never thought that there would be such a love triangle - very unique.
There are lots of pos and neg to be said about Jordans portrayal of women in Randland, Generally they serve to present particular ideals taken to extremes - love it or hate it. But he does come up with characters to absolutely love (min and Mo) and then those we love to despise (Elaida and others to come).
One key point was that Jordan wanted to make is that people don't have all the necessary information and what they think they know may well be wrong.
I could have sworn I posted a comment this morning but I bet I forgot to do the word verification thing. Ah well..lets see if I remember.
@TJ and @trench. I'm pretty certain my favorite female appears in the next book so I will definitely talk about her soon.
Favorite bad guy.. Fain. He reminds me a lot of Gollum (continuing the theme of making it more like Tolkien?) and I just have a soft spot for Gollum.
Favorite side characters in this book, it's a tie between Min and Captain Domon.
Okay, hate to admit I still haven't finished EotW yet, too much work ... but feel qualified to take part since I've read the series 3 or 4 times.
The women:
On 1st reading, my favourite was Nynaeve and still is, I never really liked Moiraine - not sure why, perhaps the "aes sedai might be bad" idea tossed about by some of the characters turned me against her.
The men:
I really liked Perrin in this book although that quickly changes in the following books. And for me, being a responsible type myself, Mat was the most annoying.
Fate/Free Choice:
Can't believe I never really thought about this at all! Just accepted that things went round & round ...
The ending:
I'm another one who didn't really know what happened at the end, it was just too much too fast. Perhaps this time round I'll make some sense of it. I was lucky to have the whole series given to me at one time, so being a fantasy fan immediately started the Great Hunt.
Fave scene: I really enjoyed the scene where Nynaeve has found Lan / Moiraine & Lan is surprised by Nynaeve's tracking abilities. The Nynaeve & Lan by the fire scene also, - sometimes, I'll just read both over again - for fun! I also liked the Trolloc-fight scene at the beginning. RJ's action scenes are always so well written.
Side characters:
My fave for EotW has to be Loial, cute cuddly just like a giant teddy bear.
Question(s):
Does anyone else try to "translate" the Old Tongue or Aiel when it appears? Tolkien's elvish was apparently structured like a real language, but I find when reading those italicized bits of Old Tongue that it either seems like several different languages or the words don't seem to use the same structure - does that make sense?
And how do you pronounce the main characters names? I know there's a glossary at the back, but do you still think of the characters with your own way of saying them? eg: I still think of Egwene as Egg-ween, but it's really Eh-gwayne? and for the longest time, Nynaeve was Nin-Knave for me, altho I've accepted the Nigh-Neeve pronunciation now.
*** possible spoiler ? ***
it wasn't until this re-reading that I noticed the line about Elaida hating rats!
@Najolica
You know, the only reason I can pronounce Nynaeve correctly (in my head while I'm reading it) is because one time I picked up cheap an audio version of EoTW. Even reading the glossary doesn't help much. I still pronounce Egwene as Egg-ween. Not sure why one stuck and the other didn't. Loial is like Loyal (not sure if that's from the glossary/audio book or if that's what someone else told me once and it stuck).
I can't think of any other names from this book that I pronounce differently from what I know they should be.
I am rereading this series for the 3rd time. First time I got as far as book 8, then had to wait for book 9, then read it through from 1 right through. I have not actually finished EoTW, but wanted to show my face here. I lent my copy out and it was not returned, so waiting for part 2 to come back to my library. The first scene in this book was new to me, adn I think I prefer the book without it, I dont really think it serves any purpose.
Every time that I have read this series I have found new things, and intend to make notes as I go along, (but having seen some of the reviews posted may just bookmark that page) as sometimes it can be confusing to remember.
As far as female characters go, I like Min, and Moiraine, am indifferent towards Egwene but get very irritated by Nynaeve. I find her just like Mat, lol. Sometimes so stubborn and almost causes trouble to happen. My favourite female characters come later though. My favourite male character is Lan!
This is what I get for saying I'll come back later, because there's no way I'll get through all these comments!
I'm confused that the 'women of WoT' would be considered a 'charged topic.' I didn't encounter anything remotely controversial about their roles, especially considering that this book is set in a primitive, medieval time period. If anything, the ladies act before their time.
I'm looking forward to next month, especially since I've heard that WoT starts to depart from similarities to Lord of the Rings. I kept comparing everything against Tolkien's work, and when Thom went down against the Myrrdral (sp?), I said, that's just like Gandalf going down in the caves! I kept waiting for Thom to come back too.
Anyway, I had a lot of those moments, and I'm looking forward to not doing that anymore.
Re: Similarities to other series:
Has anyone read the Thomas Covenant series by SR Donaldson? The Blight scene reminded me of the Sun of Pestilence in those books.
And the aes sedai show similarities to the Bene Gesserits from Dune.
I guess there are only X number of themes in the fantasy world ...
I'll have to come back and finish tomorrow but I wanted to jump in with some quick comments. *waves hello at everyone*
This is my 4th reread. I only read the first 3 books when I was 13 or so and then I picked it up again at about 20 and then I started a reread a year ago preparing for the release of TGS. What I love about the WoT is the fact that you always discover something new when you reread, so it doesn't get bogged down for me. I don't reread books often because of that.
1.) I think Jordan does a pretty good job of giving us *real* characters. People that we love to love or love to hate. I think the whole "controversy" over how Jordan treats women in the WoT just underscores this. Some women really do act like that! I don't understand why people get upset.
My favorite female was Moraine. She was wise and strong and powerful and a little scary and mysterious. I loved it.
I like Nyn a little bit in this book but I really get annoyed with her in later books and then I start liking her again. But again I see this as character growth so it never really bothered me.
I really disliked Egwene in this book. I hate how she acts uppity sometimes, treating men like they're stupid. But she is *hands down* my favorite character of the entire series because of her growth later on. I really relate to her.
2. Of the 3 boys, I loved Perrin in this first book. He was always the kind of boy that I like in real life, steady and strong. And I loved the Wolfbrother thing so much! But I really start to dislike him later in the series, in part by how he deals with being a Wolfbrother and also in part because of a stupid love interest I love to stab in my mind :D
Will finish answering tomorrow...
~Caitrin
@Caitrin [Enigmatic to prevent spoilage] It has been since Summer of 2008, so I forget my latest reactions to the love interest, but I must say that I love her for her action in the TGS Prologue.
The great thing about Jordan's characters is that they have their faults. Sometimes I want to shout at these characters for what they do.
Also, the asymmetry of information and relative scarcity of anyone willing to share what they know leads to great "headdesk" moments, as it were.
And speaking of Fain, I need to start The Great Hunt soon.
My brother pronounces Moiraine rather oddly, but I don't even attempt to pronounce half the names if I can help it.
There was something else I was going to say... oh yes! Loial is just awesome. I love that guy, and he is probably one of the characters I am most like. (Curse my clothing for [usually] not having pockets large enough for books!)
@ Najolica
Im fairly certain the old tongue does not actual translate like Tolkien's elvish does. Jordan's language is more just variations on other languages and his own made up words. Tolkien was an actual professor of language so he actually made a working language.
@Tracy
I like your comparison of Mat and Nynaeve, I never noticed before but they really are very similar while being polar opposites.
@ Chris Hall
Loial Is awesome! He is the character im most like to, except for the 9 feet tall with big ears and eyebrows. Oh to have pockets as big as his. Im also over protective of books, I get mad if a bend the binding to much. I love his honesty and that he doesn't see himself as a hero, just someone to record the events around the 3 ta'veren.
@ trench
Okay, so that's why it sometimes sounds like (to me anyway) Japanese when they were in Shienar!
@ Tracy
I got a book too that had a chapter about Egwene when she was little! and it was only 1/2 of the EotW! - I think in some countries, (Spain maybe?) the books are split into 2 volumes
@ Chris Hall
You know, I always pronounce Moiraine as More-Rain, but when I read your comment, I looked it up and it's actually supposed to be Mwah-Rain!
Okay, I'm a little late. And all that I wanted to be said has been said. I didn't have a chance to get online (apart from work) until now.
I'm just happy to be re-reading these books. I've been putting it off until I had the rest of the series (I only have up to 8) but now I have the excuse to buy the rest! :)
I read these about 10 years ago, and I'm glad to see that I'm picking out more than I did back then. I tend to gloss over bits in books, but I made sure not to miss paragraphs.
I guess in this book my favourite character was Moiraine, if only for the fact that the boys always curse the fact she's an Aes Sedai, yet then wish they had her to turn to when she's not there. It's hilarious.
What I also found amusing was the fact that Perrin and Rand both thought the other was better at talking to girls.
I like knowing how to pronounce names when I read too. I'm pretty good with most of them, but Cairhien (how ever it's spelt) is beyond me. So it's just care-highn, hehe.
I like stories where characters get reincarnated, which is what happens in WoT - so I'm looking forward to finding out more about who was who, if they are/were anyone special in another Age.
I'll try to post earlier after The Great Hunt - I like discussions!
@Najolica, I had that version too, called From the 2 Rivers. I am still waiting for the second half to come back to my library, in fact I wonder whether someone else in my area is doing this challenge too, as the first half was out when i looked initially
@Selwyn. I also find the Perrin/Rand girl thing amusing
Is it shallow to like Moiraine that much more after Dan Dos Santos made a GORGEOUS cover for The Fires of Heaven? (http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=58667)
...gorgeous!
Tor split the first two books (The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt) into two parts each and marketed them as YA. I've read the "Ravens" prologue, but I don't actually own any of those four. Tom Doherty has said there probably won't be any more since the characters are older and it is harder to split some of the books.
@TJ I love that Dan Dos Santos piece. I wish I could get that on an actual book, but for now those new cover pieces are ebook only.
I'm glad I found this Wheel of Time re-read, makes my private reading realm a bit more... social.
Here's my review:
http://opally.blogspot.com/2010/02/eye-of-world.html
I'm a fantasy-loving Dostoevskian-style cynic, if there can be such a person.
- What do you think of the women in EotW? Which do you view as the strongest?
It was good to read strong women characters, I only wish they had more dimensionality. Moiraine I found the most fascinating; Nynaeve's bossy character was annoying to me, and again, I would have liked more insight into her own inner world.
- Of the three young men (Perrin, Mat, and Rand) which are you most predisposed to like/dislike?
I wished their characters were more sharply drawn; Mat is too flaccid as a trickster archetype; Rand doesn't seem to have much personality; Perrin, I agree, is the most interesting and likable because his inner world is more strongly drawn. He doesn't just become a wolf-man, he struggles with himself and discovers inner strength in his failings.
- What do you think of the role of fate/free choice in EotW?
I see a lot of talking about "the pattern" but I don't see much depth in the writing about making decisions. I think there's a bit too much of the role of "fate". Human actions lose their value and interest if human will is dominated by forces that do not become themselves objects of the narrative drama.
- Did the end work for you? Did you immediately want to pick up The Great Hunt or were you ready for a break?
Magic is a tricky thing to work well in a fantasy; it's usually a bit too much deus ex machina. On the other hand a mystery compels one's interest, but only in the expectation and hope that there will be future clarity. To have Rand suddenly acting as an agent of god-like forces, with little sense of development of will on his part, didn't seem dramatically meaningful to me. But I did like the description of the Way, the Blight, the Green Man, and the Eye of the World, those were great.
- What was your favorite scene and why?
Shadar Logoth. I loved the description of exploring the ghostly empty city, the boys' interaction with Mordreth, and later, the realization that Mat had taken the jeweled dagger. I thought it was full of an atmosphere of unknown, dangerous powers that are beyond ordinary perception and comprehension.
I am a huge fantasy fan, and especially of "The Wheel of Time". This is i think the third time I have read the series, or at least this book from the series, and I have enjoyed it every time. I always however merge the plots books in my head as I am thinking about them. For example after book three Mat and Perrin are by far my favorite characters, and I always forget how little we see them in this first book, and it is one of the things that keeps driving me to read the series. I look at this book almost more as a prequel book than a part of the same series but I still Love it all the same. This is my first post of this kind so feel free to leave me some comments.
@Fishe111: I'm pretty excited to see development in Mat and Rand, because I think they get so little in this particular book, but I don't know if I can give up Perrin as my favorite. ;)
Have you read New Spring, how do you feel about how it falls into the series?
@opal I also hate when a story uses sudden godlike abilities to wrap up plot. For me, I would rather see characters learn there powers before they go uber on me. Luckily WOT doesn't use deus ex machina to often, but it does show up. Actually I always felt WOT has a very understandable magic system, with a clearly defined set of rules. For the most part characters learn to crawl, then walk, then fall down a hill. Rand is an exception though, but I would spoil if I kept on.
@fishe111 I always get events confused on rereads. The story is so linear its easy to bunch them all up.
@TJ New Spring came out between between Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams. It can be read at any point in the series without spoiling anything. You do meet some characters much earlier. Personally I love it, but I am biased. It was orignally released in a fantasy compilation book called Legends. It was a novella in that book, but Jordan flushed it out into a short novel. Its pure fandom fun, we get to see some stuff that is only ever mentioned but never seen.
I love New Spring too! It is much lighter than the others and fun.
@trench thanks for the response. I'm reading TGH now, and enjoying the deeper description of the development and practice of magic powers. Saidar and saidin are masculine and feminine archetypal energy, and Rand's practice of emptying his mind is a reference to profound meditation practices such as Tibetan Buddhism. So the magic system seems credible to me.
My critical mind which says "If I were writing this, I would..." makes me think, "heck, I should give this a try." I do appreciate that writing well is very hard indeed, and I don't want to come off sounding too crabby, and there are certainly qualities to appreciate in R.J.'s writing.
@opal I dont think you came off as crabby. WOT is not perfect, i'd be the first to say that. I feel that what Jordan does well he does very well, but he misses in places also. His world building and the way he weaves story lines together is unparalleled in my oppinion. I can't wait for June and July's disscusion, cause thats when this story gets crazy big and really confusing. Thats why I love it so much, I have never found a story as massive and complex as this behemoth.
@opal also wanted to mention something about Jordan's use of eastern religons such as Hinduism and Bhudism. One Jordans smartest moves was to use actual religous concepts from our world in his. The wheel of time is a major concept in Hinduism and the symbols for the power are each a half of a ying yang. He also uses heavy Norse Mythology to. If you know much about these things you will notice many refrences to them throughout the series. His use of these concepts makes evrything much more believable for me.
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